Talk:Java (programming language)

Too many examples

I think the article has too many examples and feels to much as a programming textbook. I don't see why there needs to be example code for Applets, Swing GUIs, Servlets with detailed explanations. If you compare it to the C++ or C articles it becomes apparent that the amount of code in the article has to be reduces for readability. What are your opinions on this? --217.209.140.211 (talk) 10:25, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. I just read this article in full in order to get an understanding of the Java language, and feel that: the source code examples in the Syntax section very much enhance the quality of the article and do not take lengthen the article significantly. I think it is valuable and important to describe the syntax of the language, because syntax is a fundamental component of a programming language. I also think that it would inappropriate to attempt to describe the syntax without examples, and that the examples given are pretty good.

Likewise, I think that the examples in the Special Classes section are each justified in that they describe a significant aspect of Java with minimal and tidy source, and concise comments.

The line between factual exposition and training is grey, and when the topic is a tool, an example or description of its use constitutes both. The examples in the article enhance the factual description of Java in areas which are fundamental to programming languages, and do not, I believe, make the article overly cumbersome or hard to read. For readers without any knowledge of programming, those sections would be hard to read, but the exposition is well partitioned. Articles describing similarly specialised content in different fields typically adopt a similar style, and I believe this is sensible. (Unsigned comment by 49.129.61.26)

I agree there are too many examples (see my comment below that this article is horrible). For this article to be effective, 49.129.61.26, you would have to be a programmer with considerable experience in another language, who happened not to know Java, and who was terribly interested in often trivial differences in programming syntax. That probably constitutes <1% of Wikipedia's general readers. For the other 99% it's either a boring repetition of what they already know, or an incomprehensible barrage of facts they can't understand and probably wouldn't care about if they could.

I also disagree that this sterile, unidirectional style is common in Wiki articles on biology, sociology, history, economics, ecology, physics ....

76.102.1.193 (talk) 21:03, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe the article is front loaded with examples to prevent criticisms of Java section from expanding, IE the purpose of the extent of the code examples is to take up space so that factually based negative statements cannot be included for example limitations of expression in the Java language preventing portability of code across Java run-time versions either on different platforms or same platforms with different JRE versions, performance of Java implementations, or limitations in the independence of the language specification committee. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.125.12.222 (talk) 15:45, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The amount of criticism in the article is fine. Go look at the C or C++ article and compare the criticism sections. Mm32pc (talk) 20:30, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I did and if you look at the C++ article, they don't have code examples in the article. I wonder what they have instead, maybe content, but C++ is an older more widely adopted language with more code in use, so maybe they have something to put there instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.125.12.222 (talk) 20:23, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 October 2012

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/jdk7-relnotes-418459.html 202.131.110.154 (talk) 06:18, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Please be more specific as to what you want to be changed in the article. -- Nczempin (talk) 06:25, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Simpler object model than C++

This is clearly true, because of no multiple inheritance. What level of RS do you want to back this up? Hcobb (talk) 02:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's 'clearly true'. Sure Java doesn't have M.I., but there's more to an object model than that.

Compared to C it's a no contest - Java has classes for a start, but also inheritance, interfaces, references, different rules for fundamentals and class types, generics, type coercion (auto boxing and unboxing), exceptions and garbage collection.

Compared to C++, Java still has interfaces (instead of MI), different rules for fundamentals and class types, generics instead of templates, type coercion (auto boxing and unboxing) and garbage collection.

I haven't see any RS that says that 'Java has a simpler object model than C++'. There's plenty that say that Java is simpler, but that's another story.

Let me know if you find any decent, clear, RS quotes.

peterl (talk) 04:21, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

It's best to state facts only, such as "in Java, multiple inheritance is only supported for interfaces" (or a clearer explanation than that blurb that just came off the top of my head). Comparing two programming languages on the basis of "simplicity" is very much a judgement call, and it is difficult to avoid WP:OR. Even where WP:RS have stated such things (and assuming there are no other WP:RS that disagree), trying to work such things into WP articles usually involves a lot of WP:Weasel Words; "some say that Java is simpler...bla bla etc.". -- Nczempin (talk) 06:56, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

What do Java programmers do without friendship? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.125.12.222 (talk) 20:33, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 November 2012

add Dart(programming language) to "influenced" in summary area. Sorenbladesinger (talk) 20:44, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:15, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

• Also, as influences on Dart, please look at the differences between Java and JavaScript. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:34, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Controlled by?

"Editons" Controlled by Sun Microsystems?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.236.40.162 (talk) 14:06, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 December 2012

Dogoteacher (talk) 16:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[ User:dogoteacher] Add link in:

External links

• Jesus Ambriz Meza, Tutorial de Java en español : [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8x4VF_RuI4&list=PL30FD8566F518006D ]

Dogoteacher (talk) 16:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

• oppose Not English language, see WP:NONENGEL. It might be appropriate for es:WP, but not for en:WP. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Dogoteacher, but Andy is correct, so I've closed this request. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 10:06, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Is java langauge is less powerful then c language in chip programming

Is java langauge is less powerful then c language in chip programming — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raja.m82 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. You could start with Google or Stackoverflow.

peterl (talk) 03:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 January 2013

link in footnote 23 is broken.. replace http://java.sun.com/docs/white/langenv/Intro.doc2.html with http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/intro-141325.html 78.52.96.102 (talk) 18:46, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• done Andy Dingley (talk) 10:35, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

DHS says do not use

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/15/avoid_java_in_browsers/ "Unless it is absolutely necessary to run Java in web browsers, disable it even after updating to [Java 7 update 11]," the US-CERT team said in an update yesterday. "This will help mitigate other Java vulnerabilities that may be discovered in the future."

Important enough to put in the lead? Hcobb (talk) 18:32, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

This information is important

The current implementations of the Java Runtime are considered insecure by the US-CERT team

but not that specific information should be included in the article in my opinion. It should be more generic:

The Java language has been criticized for being insecure. It is for this reason that some security organizations, including US-CERT and Sophos, recommend that Java not be enabled by default in web browsers.

Emilymab (talk) 14:34, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed an edit based upon this section.

Emilymab (talk) 15:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Also Influenced by Perl

Java's regular expression engine is influenced by Perl, see the official doc section on regexp's — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.254.141.42 (talk) 13:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 January 2013

Under Java (programming language)#Performance, can someone change [[ARM]] to [[ARM architecture]]? "ARM" is now redirecting to Arm (disambiguation), and is not the primary meaning for ARM architecture. 24.6.164.7 (talk) 06:23, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Done --Jnorton7558 (talk) 06:43, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 February 2013

Please add the following sentence:

Despite being popular, Java has been criticized for being insecure; some security organizations, including US-CERT and Sophos, recommend that Java not be enabled by default in web browsers.

to the article lead, the first paragraph then becoming

Java is a general-purpose, concurrent, class-based, object-oriented computer programming language that is specifically designed to have as few implementation dependencies as possible. It is intended to let application developers "write once, run anywhere" (WORA), meaning that code that runs on one platform does not need to be recompiled to run on another. Java applications are typically compiled to bytecode (class file) that can run on any Java virtual machine (JVM) regardless of computer architecture. Java is, as of 2012, one of the most popular programming languages in use, particularly for client-server web applications, with a reported 10 million users.Despite being popular, Java has been criticized for being insecure; some security organizations, including US-CERT and Sophos, recommend that Java not be enabled by default in web browsers. Java was originally developed by James Gosling at Sun Microsystems (which has since merged into Oracle Corporation) and released in 1995 as a core component of Sun Microsystems' Java platform. The language derives much of its syntax from C and C++, but it has fewer low-level facilities than either of them.

Emilymab (talk) 15:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Java has no more of a security issue than most other programming languages - certainly not at a level that belongs in a discussion of the fundamental language. This proposed edit is highly partisan – are we planning a similar edit to Visual Basic for Applications or Windows Scripting Host? There is a security issue certainly. This isn't about the Java language though, it's about the way that the JVM is deliberately made accessible to a browser, and whether the browser JVM's sandbox model is adequately secured. As other languages don't have such a browser-accessible JVM at all, then this issue doesn't arise (not that their language is in any way "more secure"). A very similar issue arises with JavaScript, although that one is even more related to the language, and less about the execution environment. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:23, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

• Not done: I can agree that the statements about Java having security flaws are negative, but I don't consider them anymore partisan than saying that Java is Object-oriented. It's simply a fact about the language's implementations. I did consider not requesting this edit on the basis that it isn't a flaw in the language itself, but rather the JVM, and I failed to do enough looking to realize this edit isn't appropriate for this particular page. I will be marking this edit as answered(not done) and attempting to see if the information expressed in this edit would fit better into the Java_(software platform) page instead. Emilymab (talk) 17:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

The only place this would really be relevant (and even then I might question the phrasing) would be at Java applet. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)